What to Do in Retirement

What to Do in Retirement Isn’t Golf. It’s Tuesday. | Retirement Purpose & IRA Mistakes

Dollars & Sense Podcast | October 25, 2026 with Joel Garris, CFP®, and Zach Keister, CF2®

Figuring out what to do in retirement is a different question from “when,” and most people answer only the second one. Joel Garris, CFP®, and Zach Keister, CF2®, explain why “I’m going to travel” or “I’m going to golf” is an idea, not a plan, and why retirement lifestyle planning has to happen before anyone can tell you whether you have enough. Then they walk through four IRA mistakes the IRS may not let you undo.

WHAT YOU’LL LEARN

• Why Zach says to picture an ordinary Tuesday six months into life after retirement, not the first big trip
• Why “Do I have enough to retire?” can’t be answered until you answer “enough to do what?”
• Why retirement is a career change, and what happens to the “I am a lawyer / I am an engineer” identity the Monday after 🧪
• How to practice retirement with a week of PTO at home, no vacation, and what you’ll learn by Wednesday
• Why retiring to Florida after 20 years of vacationing here is “completely different” from living here, in Zach’s own experience
• The five questions Joel and Zach suggest you answer before you retire
• Retirement mistakes to avoid when moving IRA money: inherited IRAs, the once-every-12-months rule, 72(t) plans, and taking stock out but putting cash back

Episode Chapters

• 00:00 Why “When” Isn’t the Only Retirement Question
• 09:52 What to Do in Retirement: Retiring To, Not From
• 13:03 Retirement Is a Career Change (Identity Shock)
• 15:38 You Can’t Golf 40 Hours a Week
• 17:32 Practice Retirement: The Week-at-Home Test
• 19:07 Life After Retirement: Who Are Your People?
• 20:06 Retiring to Florida? Vacationing vs. Living
• 21:18 Five Questions to Answer Before You Retire
• 25:06 Retirement Mistakes to Avoid: IRA Edition
• 28:38 Inherited an IRA? Don’t Take the Check
• 32:13 The Once-Every-12-Months Rollover Trap
• 35:00 72(t) and the Expensive Word “Retroactive”
• 37:22 Pause Before You Push the Button4

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Podcast Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Joel Garris: Well, good morning everyone, and welcome to Dollars and Sense. We have another full program on this week’s edition. Uh, when I do the math There are now 2,500 episodes. Is that right? 20, 25 years times 50. Zach, is that- It’s

[00:00:23] Zach Keister: about there …

[00:00:24] Joel Garris: is that my- It’s

[00:00:25] Zach Keister: about there.

[00:00:25] Joel Garris: Yeah, 2,500 episodes, uh, and counting. Uh, so good stuff indeed.

[00:00:32] Joel Garris: My name is Joel Garris. I wasn’t the one that did all of those episodes. Some of those early ones were done with my father-in-law, and then it was a, a tandem, a, a delightful duo of myself and my father-in-law, Jack Nelson. Now, I get the delight of having a variety of people, uh, do- be my, uh, be my duet partner.

[00:00:51] Joel Garris: Uh, this week it is Zach Keister. Welcome, uh, as always, to the program. It’s

[00:00:56] Zach Keister: always a good time. Always enjoy being on the program.

[00:00:59] Joel Garris: For those [00:01:00] of you who do not know, Zach is one of our certified financial fiduciaries at Nelson Financial Planning. And my name, of course, is Joel Garris. I am a certified financial fiduciary at Nelson Financial Planning as well, part of the team of great people whose sole purpose in life is to help you make better decisions with your money.

[00:01:22] Joel Garris: To learn more about us, check out our website at nelsonfinancialplanning.com. Uh, let’s see here. Original air date of this program is October 25th, which means that, uh, Halloween, that, uh, that holiday of Halloween, of candy and all those good thing- candy and costumes, right? Uh, is coming up. Got any big plans?

[00:01:44] Zach Keister: Also known as the dentist’s favorite holiday as, as, as well. They’re about to cash in. It’s almost time. But no, I don’t have any personal, uh, Halloween plans. I guess I’ll be a curmudgeon and just sit, uh, at home with my giant [00:02:00] Costco-sized bag of candy and, and not, not share. My town just gets too, too crazy.

[00:02:05] Zach Keister: You can’t park anywhere. I guess, I don’t know. I’m just getting to that age where I’m like, “I don’t wanna go there ’cause there’s no parking.” Ah. I, I might be coming a little early, but I- That’s a- … I’m just like, “Ah, there’s nowhere to park. I’m not going.”

[00:02:17] Joel Garris: It’s a problem throughout the Central Florida region, and actually a little bit of a problem at our office, too.

[00:02:23] Joel Garris: So, uh, that parking is a main problem. Do, do you get many trick-or-treaters at

[00:02:28] Zach Keister: your- We get a ton. Okay. We get a ton because people that are on vacation at- Sure … um, you know, at the different various parks, they’ll pop over and, and wanna do some trick-or-treating. Oh, right, right, right. So they… We’re, we’re the next town over- Yeah.

[00:02:41] Zach Keister: That makes sense … so they, they will slide in and get, get some free candy while they’re, while they’re around.

[00:02:45] Joel Garris: Ah, okay. So my old neighborhood right in downtown Orlando, Delaney Park, always had, like, hundreds- Mm-hmm … of, of trick-or-treaters. And it’s funny, we moved to, we moved, uh, downsized a little bit and all that.

[00:02:59] Joel Garris: And, uh, [00:03:00] and the new neighborhood, although not so new, I think we’ve been there now three, four years, uh, you know, it’s just a little bit more of a quieter- residential. We’re kind of on the end of a cul-de-sac. So we, we, yeah, we, we’ve gone from hundreds to not many. None. Mm. That’s for sure.

[00:03:17] Zach Keister: Mm.

[00:03:17] Joel Garris: But, you know, the good news is, and that means the candy’s not sitting there all week for me.

[00:03:21] Zach Keister: Well, that’s true. That’s always the, the big killer is to get the bag early, and then by the time Halloween rolls around, it’s like, oh, wait a minute, I might have to go get more candy- Right … because I’ve eaten the entire bag myself.

[00:03:32] Joel Garris: That’s, that’s a problem. Um, and, uh, so a favorite costume? What, uh, do you have a, did you have a favorite costume that you, that you wore as a child or maybe as a, as an adult?

[00:03:44] Zach Keister: Favorite, favorite costume, and if you are watching this on the YouTube channel… If you’re not, I would encourage you to listen to it on the radio and then flip over and watch us on our YouTube channel, Nelson Financial Planning, and, um, look at my costume. We’re gonna put up a picture of my favorite costume as a-

[00:03:59] Zach Keister: as a [00:04:00] kid. I was, uh, Captain Hook. Don’t know why I wanted to be a, a villain so bad, but I had the little plastic, uh, fake hook and the whole, whole nine yards, so.

[00:04:09] Joel Garris: So, so Jamie’s gonna, uh, put some, do some extra editing to this YouTube video.

[00:04:13] Zach Keister: Jamie’s gonna add a, a picture in for us.

[00:04:15] Joel Garris: Okay. Well then maybe I gotta scroll and find some pictures of me in some Halloween costumes.

[00:04:22] Joel Garris: Absolutely. I didn’t realize that we were doing that. Absolutely. So, uh, probably my, my favorite one, which, but wound up not being a good decision, uh, you know, I had three boys, so we were heavy into Star Wars and all of that stuff, so I did Darth Vader. Okay. Right? Uh, but, um, you know- A- as much as we think it’s cool, it’s beautiful out there right now, right?

[00:04:45] Joel Garris: But sometimes Halloween can fall, uh, when it’s really, really hot. Right. And a Darth Vader costume is pretty, pretty hot. Um-

[00:04:54] Zach Keister: Did you get into the face paint?

[00:04:56] Joel Garris: I did not. I’ve never been much of a- Okay … face paint guy. No me- But I had the mask- [00:05:00] Okay … you know, the whole, so- Okay … it was, yeah. And then the long gown, it’s just…

[00:05:04] Joel Garris: Yeah.

[00:05:04] Zach Keister: There’s, there’s so many detrimental stories of, of folks that do the face paint, and then, uh, that’s just kinda what they look like for two or three days- Yeah … afterwards.

[00:05:13] Joel Garris: Yeah. Yeah. No, well, and thank goodness that the Halloween holiday will pass, ’cause then the stores can really roll out all that Christmas stuff- Oh,

[00:05:20] Zach Keister: yeah

[00:05:20] Zach Keister: that’s already there.

[00:05:22] Joel Garris: It, it’s already there. Whoo. Anyway, speaking of scary facts or scary items, uh, midterms coming right up. Hmm. Nine days away. Uh, a lot of happening, a lot of conversation, a lot of focus, but, uh, as we like to remind people, uh, elections in the long term don’t really have major impact on, uh, the, the, the markets.

[00:05:49] Joel Garris: A- h- and history certainly tells us

[00:05:51] Zach Keister: that. A- absolutely. And especially pay attention, because I imagine once again, it’s going to be the most important election- Yeah … that we’ve [00:06:00] ever had.

[00:06:00] Joel Garris: Yes. Yes, of one’s lifetime. Yes, we hear that every time. And look, uh, historical precedent, and it seems like some of the, some of the polls would suggest, party out of power, if you will, winds up, uh, gaining in the midterms.

[00:06:15] Joel Garris: That’s just kinda how it works. Uh, but effectively what that would mean is that you would then continue to have a gridlock- Mm-hmm … in Washington. And I think a- as much as, as maybe that’s not a good thing, because I think there’s some longer term problems that the folks in Washington should be focusing on and trying to solve, uh, if there is gridlock, you know that there won’t be any major policy swings.

[00:06:43] Joel Garris: So some degree of, of uncertainty is removed, and it’s the uncertainty that the market really never likes.

[00:06:48] Zach Keister: Absolutely. And, and the need to work together, if you will. Right. Not, not one party running the whole show.

[00:06:54] Joel Garris: Yeah. No, well,

[00:06:55] Zach Keister: yeah.

[00:06:56] Joel Garris: Um, I’ll let you know how that plays out. I don’t think we’ve had [00:07:00] that in a while.

[00:07:00] Joel Garris: Um, so but we need that, uh, ’cause there’s some real problems to, uh, solve. Uh, another thing that, uh, that though that was not scary- Was, uh, we had our annual client appreciation event this past week. We had the, the number two of that. Uh, we like to kind of keep the size to a certain level, so we run two of the events, uh, sort of back to back.

[00:07:23] Joel Garris: Last week we had the first one. This week coming up we have the second one. And, uh, and just a nice, uh, way to spend an evening with our, our friends and clients a- and just let them know how much we appreciate them. And a nice, nice venue. We had not used that venue before, and, uh, so wound up thinking that was a very nice one.

[00:07:43] Zach Keister: Yeah. New venue, always a good time to mingle around and get to see, see folks that we see all year in a different kind of capacity, and just have some more general positive conversations.

[00:07:54] Joel Garris: No question, no question at all on that. Also this past week, the start of earnings season, right? So earnings [00:08:00] season for the third quarter, which means that companies are sort of tidying up the books and announcing to the world at large how they did.

[00:08:08] Joel Garris: Uh, I guess off to a strong but mixed start. Uh, banks, uh, go, typically kind of go first, majorities beating estimates. But, um, you know, uh, you know, a little bit, a little, some mixed results in there.

[00:08:20] Zach Keister: Certainly some, certainly some, some mixed results. We’re right here, like you mentioned, nine days out from, from midterm.

[00:08:26] Zach Keister: But yeah, certainly mixed, mixed results on the earnings side.

[00:08:30] Joel Garris: Yeah. I think, uh, some of the tech companies, uh, just, just their need or how much… And then we’ve been talking about this a lot with our clients and, and o- on this, on this show as well. You know, uh, there’s a big spend to build these data centers, and I think some of that is, is starting, the reality of that is starting to show up a little bit in, uh, some of these earnings that are coming out.

[00:08:53] Joel Garris: Uh, and uh, and then you overlay sort of higher inflation, some of the weaker jobs data. And, uh, so you, [00:09:00] yeah, you’ve got, you’ve got a combination there.

[00:09:02] Zach Keister: Some, uh, folks are starting to come back down to reality a little bit more if, if, if you will, on, on the AI stuff. Folks are saying, “Wait a minute, how much does this cost to build?

[00:09:11] Zach Keister: How much electricity is this going to take?” Um, so yeah. Some of, some of that is certainly starting to come into the real world and, and making it onto paper. The numbers are starting to make it onto the paper.

[00:09:21] Joel Garris: And what the revenue is going to be. That’s obviously what it comes down to. Anyway, all right, so coming up on the program, we’re gonna talk about the question that doesn’t get asked enough as you’re preparing for retirement, and then we’re gonna talk about some IRA mistakes and how to avoid them.

[00:09:40] Joel Garris: All of that coming up, uh, next here on Dollars and Sense with Joel Garris, Zach Keister of Nelson Financial Planning. Uh, we’ve got a great topic in this segment. Uh, Zach, go ahead and get us teed up here.

[00:09:52] Zach Keister: We do. We certainly do. Uh, one of the questions that we ask folks when they come in to have a conversation with us is, when do you want to [00:10:00] retire?

[00:10:00] Zach Keister: And we get some different answers. Usually it’s, uh, “I wanna be retired at 62,” “I wanna retire at 65,” “Oh, I need to wait until Medicare.” But the central question that we wanna pose here is what are you retiring to? Now, we know what you’re retiring from. You’re retiring from your job, you’re retiring from sitting in traffic and reading emails and going to meetings and that sort of stuff.

[00:10:25] Zach Keister: But I feel like it’s an important question to start asking yourself, “What am I retiring to?”

[00:10:31] Joel Garris: Yeah, you know, Zach, this is one of those things where I think, uh, we oftentimes just, just focus purely on sort of the financial side. And not to say that that’s not important, it clearly is, the n- the dollars and the cents and the numbers and all of that.

[00:10:46] Joel Garris: But the reality is that, you know, most of the time we hear answers like, “Well, I’m gonna travel,” or, “I’m gonna golf,” or, “I’m gonna spend time with the grandkids.” But there, there, there’s often not a, a lot of, [00:11:00] of, of structure- Mm-hmm … behind that, and I think that’s what we wanted to talk about on, on this segment.

[00:11:04] Zach Keister: Yeah, that answer certainly needs some, some definition there. So let’s, let’s take, like, travel for example. It’s like, okay, I wanna retire and I wanna do, do some more traveling. Well, what does, you know, what does traveling look like? Does that, does that mean going on a three-month vacation in Europe? Or does that, does that mean spending time with your grandcar- grandkids halfway across the country?

[00:11:28] Zach Keister: Um, you gotta def- start to define that a little bit more.

[00:11:31] Joel Garris: Yeah, that notion of, of having a little bit more clarity, ’cause there’s a financial difference there. If you’re, you know, if you’re, if you’re spending three weeks in c- in, you know, Claremont, uh, as your, uh, as your, uh, uh, ideal retirement, uh, versus three weeks in Rome, I mean, there, there’s, there’s a price differential.

[00:11:50] Zach Keister: There’s, there’s a big, big difference there. And one of the other questions we get all the time is, do I have enough to retire?

[00:11:57] Joel Garris: Yeah.

[00:11:57] Zach Keister: That’s, I mean, it’s very simple, but complex at the same time answer, and that delves exactly into what you’re talking about, Joel. And it’s like, well, what’s retirement gonna be?

[00:12:07] Zach Keister: Because that number’s gonna be different depending on what type of retirement you wanna have.

[00:12:12] Joel Garris: No, exactly, because, uh, it becomes down to, you know, do, do I have enough money to retire? But I, yeah, I think your point, Zach, is, uh, uh, enough money to do what is really the, the other part of, of, of that question.

[00:12:26] Joel Garris: Uh, and, uh, and, and clearly that starts to, starts to, uh, open up some other questions.

[00:12:32] Zach Keister: Yeah. Yeah, and, and it makes a big, big difference because if you’re gonna be somewhere for six months and then somewhere else for six months, and you’re gonna eat out four or five times a week, and you’re gonna go to, I don’t know, a bunch of football games and have a good time, a bunch of concerts-

[00:12:49] Zach Keister: Sure

[00:12:50] Zach Keister: that’s a very different retirement than saying, “Well, I’ve lived in the same house for the last 40 years, and I’m just gonna stay there and be involved in my community and, and [00:13:00] volunteer my time and stuff like that.” Completely different retirements.

[00:13:03] Joel Garris: Yeah, and I think the concept there is that, you know, retirement in and of, of itself is a really big-career change.

[00:13:12] Joel Garris: Mm-hmm. And, and this is something we talked about this week preparing for the show. I mean, when we think about retirement, it’s not just that, it’s, it’s you’re transitioning. So one of the questions that, and I know you’ve heard me ask this pe- people a ton of times, is I, you know, I always ask them, you know, “You’re so young,” ’cause in today’s world, you know, you retire at 65 and that’s still, that’s young in, in, in relative terms.

[00:13:35] Joel Garris: And I say, you know, “What, what are you going to do with the rest of your life?”

[00:13:41] Zach Keister: And that’s a, that’s a big question, and that’s a good point, to think of retirement as a career change. You’re not just dropping off, not anything anymore. Think of it as your next career.

[00:13:53] Zach Keister: Yeah.

[00:13:54] Zach Keister: Yeah. ‘

[00:13:54] Joel Garris: Cause that’s the question. I mean, you know, whenever you meet somebody, right?

[00:13:57] Joel Garris: They, they… you know, you always say, “Oh, what do you do?” And [00:14:00] you, everybody identifies, you know, “I’m a lawyer, I’m an accountant, I’m an engineer,” all of that. But, uh, uh, when you’re retired, it’s, uh, uh, you know, you gotta be thinking about what that’s gonna look like.

[00:14:13] Zach Keister: Yeah, the identity there. You, you gotta really think about how much your career…

[00:14:17] Zach Keister: I mean, something you spend 20, 30, sometimes even 40 years in becomes a huge part of your personal identity. Yeah. You, you start saying, “I am.” Sure. “I am a doctor. I am a lawyer.” Okay. Well, what happens when you retire? You, that becomes, “I was,” and then all of a sudden you’re kind of looking backwards. You don’t wanna do that.

[00:14:36] Zach Keister: You wanna look forward. Look forward to the I am again, and say, “I am retired, and here’s how I’m enjoying it.”

[00:14:43] Joel Garris: Yeah, ’cause once you retire, all, all of that, all of that goes away. I mean, it just go, goes, goes away overnight.

[00:14:49] Zach Keister: Goes away overnight. I mean, on Friday… Here’s a good example. On Friday, you might be the go-to person, you might be the senior person in your office.

[00:14:56] Zach Keister: You might be the go-to person, and you enjoy [00:15:00] that, I’m sure. And then Monday morning, you’ve retired and you’re sitting there and it’s 10:30 in the morning and you’re thinking, “Well, am I gonna eat breakfast? Uh, I’ve got nobody to answer. I’ve got no questions.” Um, yeah. It’s, it’s a big, big difference.

[00:15:16] Zach Keister: Yes. You may…

[00:15:17] Joel Garris: Yes. As a manager, you do a lot of… We like to, we like to joke around, uh, uh, and, and refer to that as pointing and shooting. So you point and you shoot, right? But when then when you, you know, you’re retired, I mean, the only… You point- when you point, you got a bunch of fingers pointing back at you. So you, you better be ready for what that, uh, what, what that looks like, that’s for sure.

[00:15:38] Zach Keister: Ab- absolutely. And I’m sorry to say it, we’re gonna, we’re gonna maybe say something that might ruffle some feathers here, but- I really don’t think you can play golf for 40 hours a week un- unfortunately. Although, that would be quite an improvement, at least personally, in my, my golf game- Uh- … for, for sure

[00:15:57] Joel Garris: one would hope, uh, [00:16:00] that if you were to choose that, that your golf game would improve. I certainly cannot attest to that. I think both you and I are once-a-year golfers. Is that pretty much all that anyone- That’s pretty accurate. Yeah. And that… And that’s, and th- but… And that’s even for a good cause. If it were not for the good cause, I don’t know that we would even golf once a year.

[00:16:18] Joel Garris: Uh, but obviously, our firm, Nelson Financial Planning, has been longtime sponsors of a charitable golf tournament that the folks at, uh, the PVA, uh, Paralyzed Vets Association of Central Florida, put on, and it’s our pleasure to sponsor. But, and now, also, I guess that forces you and I to get out and at least golf once a year.

[00:16:34] Zach Keister: Once, once a year. It’s, it’s always, every year, so fun to see the looks on people’s faces when they say, “Well, Zach, what, what are you trying to shoot today?” “What are, you know, what are you… Are you trying to break 80, 90?” Um, and my quick response is, “I’m trying to hit the ball.” Right. Um, and then the face that I look, I get very, very quick, is like, “Okay.

[00:16:53] Zach Keister: Well, we’re not counting on this guy for, for, for much here.”

[00:16:56] Joel Garris: That’s exactly correct. But, I mean, I [00:17:00] think, a- again, all of this conceptually is, is important to, to, to think about planning your retirement beyond sort of what the numbers looks like. And at, and at some point, okay, it’s, it’s Tuesday, if you will, and, uh, what does that look like, uh, from, uh, a retirement perspective?

[00:17:22] Joel Garris: And so, uh, and so that’s a concept, Zach, that I think y- y- you had that I think was really, was really great. Tell us about more of what a retirement Tuesday is all about, if you will.

[00:17:32] Zach Keister: Yeah. I mean, it’s gonna be a reality. So, um, one way to do it is to practice your retirement before you retire. Take some time off.

[00:17:41] Zach Keister: I imagine you probably have some kind of PTO. Uh, so before you actually retire, take a week off. Take a week off, and don’t plan a vacation. Don’t go on vacation. Stay at home and, uh, just see what retirement’s gonna be like. I imagine by Wednesday or Thursday you’re probably gonna know how many times the, uh, Amazon [00:18:00] truck has been down-

[00:18:01] Zach Keister: your, your, your street. You’re gonna see your neighbors and that sort of stuff. So give it a shot.

[00:18:06] Joel Garris: Uh, great suggestion. Uh, the notion is you’re not just planning for retirement, you’re planning on how you’re going to live it. We’ve got some additional thoughts on this topic, which we will finish up, but we need to first take a break, so stay tuned here on Dollars and Sense with Joel Garris and Zach Keister of Nelson Financial Planning.

[00:18:28] Joel Garris: We were talking, uh, before the break, Zach, about this notion about retirement and, and thinking about retirement not just in the financial or numbers point of view, thinking of it more as your next career and what does that look like

[00:18:44] Zach Keister: And your next stage in life, if you will, when you rec- when you retire from your career into, into retirement Basically is, is, is what we’re chatting about.

[00:18:54] Zach Keister: And we were talking about, uh, this notion of doing a little bit of an exercise. Yeah. The retirement Tuesday, if, [00:19:00] if you will, taking some time off and just kind of getting a feeling of what retirement’s gonna feel like before you actually retire.

[00:19:07] Joel Garris: No, and I think that’s a very good point. I, I think the other part of it that, that sort of segues off of that retirement Tuesday exercise is the notion of thinking about your friends, your social interaction, all of these things are crucially important to, to having a healthy lifestyle.

[00:19:24] Joel Garris: And the reality is work, uh, has a lot of, you know, has a lot of friends, has a lot of g- acquaintance in it, acquaintances in it. Um, and, uh, you need to make sure that you have that if you’re not going into work.

[00:19:37] Zach Keister: Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s such a, such a big deal. It becomes a, a psychological problem, if you will, if you just all of a sudden…

[00:19:44] Zach Keister: Think about it. You spend all this time with, with folks, um, and then if you work at a great place like Nelson Financial Planning, you spend decades with these, these same people, and then all of a sudden you retire, um, and that just kind of goes away. So work tends to allow a lot of different [00:20:00] conversations and, and have some very good conversations with some, some good people, and then when you retire, y- you kind of lose that.

[00:20:06] Joel Garris: Yeah. No, I think that’s crucially important to kind of think about your, your, your friends, your, your, your family, uh, a- and, and what that looks like. Another piece of it that sort of comes into play is this notion of where are you gonna live, right? Hear a lot of people say, “Oh, I’m gonna move to be closer to the grandkids.

[00:20:23] Joel Garris: I’m gonna, you know, move.” Uh, and, and that’s, that’s fraught with a bit of, of, of pitfalls, uh, that we’ve seen many times with people.

[00:20:32] Zach Keister: Absolutely. It, it is. Well, a lot of folks go, “Okay, I’ve been vacationing,” uh, we’ll just use Florida. People love Florida. Uh, “I’ve been vacationing to Florida the last 20 years, and I’m gonna retire there, and I’m gonna, you know, enjoy every single day.”

[00:20:47] Zach Keister: Well, we hope you do, but the thought is you’ve been vacationing here. You haven’t just been living here. Right. And it’s completely different, I can tell you from personal experience. It’s completely different living here than it [00:21:00] is vacationing here.

[00:21:01] Joel Garris: It’s, uh, it’s hot in August, uh, that is for sure. Um, a- a- but I think, you know, th- this kind of gets us to, to, to sort of some, some, some questions that we want people to be thinking about and kind of to start to, to recap some of the key takeaways, um, on, on, on this.

[00:21:18] Joel Garris: So let- let’s go to the questions first, if you, if you will. Um, you know, I think we’ve kind of, kind of based on what we’ve talked about, there, there’s really five things that we would suggest that you ask yourself, and it, and it starts with that, that question of what will an ordinary Tuesday look like in retirement?

[00:21:37] Joel Garris: Crucially important to be focusing on that.

[00:21:39] Zach Keister: Very important. And, uh, the second question is, who will I spend my time with? Uh, because you will no longer be at work, and you will no longer be spending your time with those folks. So- Good to figure out where am I gonna spend all my time and who am I spending it with.

[00:21:54] Joel Garris: Yeah, I mean, if all your friends are working, uh, and you’re retired, yeah, that, uh, that may make it [00:22:00] tricky to, to catch up with them if they’re still, uh, working. Uh, and I guess we’ll interject, um, might wanna chat with your spouse a little bit as well. Maybe they want to spend time with you, but they might want to, not want to spend all of their time with you.

[00:22:15] Zach Keister: So, uh, that who will I spend time with question has a lot of, lot of layers to that one

[00:22:21] Zach Keister: as well. It, it certainly does. Good to have the discussion with, with, with your spouse, um, ’cause you might be thinking, “Oh, great. We’re gonna both be retired, and we’re both gonna be at home, uh, all day, every day.” Right.

[00:22:32] Zach Keister: Think about all the conversations we have of like, uh, “No, we can’t let them retire yet because then they’re gonna be at home with me all day, and I don’t want that.”

[00:22:40] Joel Garris: Yeah. We’ve heard that more than once- … uh, when we’re having these retirement conversations, that is for sure. Um, and then we talked about this one, you know, what, what, what’s gonna give you purpose when the work, when, when work is gone?

[00:22:54] Joel Garris: How, how are you gonna a- spend those times? And And have, and have purpose and clarity in what it is that [00:23:00] you’re doing.

[00:23:00] Zach Keister: Yeah, absolutely. We also chat a little about where do I want to live and why. Uh, the why is im- important there. Need to find a good spot to settle in for re- retirement, um, whether, like you mentioned, that be closer to grandkids or moving to a tropical place.

[00:23:17] Zach Keister: But, uh, don’t be glassed over with, “Uh, I’ve enjoyed it on vacation, so it’s gonna be the same forever when I retire there.”

[00:23:25] Joel Garris: Well, and the moving away, too, and I think what people forget is that, you know, if you’ve been in a community 30, 40 years and you’re gonna move away to be with the kids, that means you’re gonna have to find new friends, and that’s hard at any age.

[00:23:37] Joel Garris: Uh, you’re gonna have, uh, to find new doctors. You’re, you’re gonna have to find, uh, you know, new gym, new church. A- all of that is, is, is part of it, and I think we just see all too often folks sort of struggling with that, um, when it comes to that, that question of where do I want to live in retirement? A- and most importantly, why?

[00:23:59] Joel Garris: Why are you [00:24:00] making that, uh, that change?

[00:24:01] Zach Keister: And there’s so much more logistics- Yeah … there, there as well. So if you’re gonna move across the country, okay, well, you’re doing this in retirement, so, uh, you probably aren’t the one packing all the boxes or at least lifting all the boxes, so then that’s a lot of coordination in a new area, and yeah, just a lot to take on.

[00:24:19] Joel Garris: The last one, uh, what experiences do, do I genuinely not want to, to, to miss? And this one has a little bit more of a, of a nuance to it because the harsh reality is at 65 you’re gonna be physically able to do things better than when you are 75 or 85. And I think that’s part of it, is to sort of prioritize what those experiences are and, uh, what’s involved with them.

[00:24:55] Zach Keister: Yeah. Absolutely. Hu- huge to try and navigate that while you’re a little [00:25:00] bit younger and, and, and still nimble and able, able to do so, because eventually, unfortunately, that won’t always be the case.

[00:25:06] Joel Garris: Ah, so let’s shift some gears. Uh, we’ve talked a lot about, uh, retirement, some of the ways in which to, to be thinking about it.

[00:25:14] Joel Garris: Um, wanna shift some gears and, and talk about our other topic of this morning, which is, um, a- and this is one we see a lot, okay? And, um, you know, it’s a question of, of retirement account mistakes, IRA mistakes. And, and Zach, you raise a, a, a interesting question. You know, what, what’s, what’s hard to overcome- Investment or, or a retirement account mistake.

[00:25:38] Joel Garris: Uh, uh, uh, and I think that’s a great question.

[00:25:40] Zach Keister: Yeah. Ab- ab- absolutely it is. Well, one, uh, might not have gone the way that you wanted it to, but the other is like, whoopsie, this is no going back from here. Uh, what, what do I do?

[00:25:51] Joel Garris: Yeah. I’ll take… I’ll, I’ll, I’ll take, uh, between the two which one is worse, uh, it’s definitely [00:26:00] making a mistake with your re- retirement account.

[00:26:03] Joel Garris: ‘Cause oftentimes you can’t undo that. To your point, I, I could, I could always sell an investment, I can rebalance, I can, I can, you know, try a different investment strategy if the current one isn’t working, but, uh, the IRS is, um, you know, a little less forgiving.

[00:26:20] Zach Keister: A little, a little less friendly. If you do something, uh, negative on their side, uh, they might give you the one-word answer of tough.

[00:26:27] Joel Garris: Right. Right. Uh, or, a- and not just tough, but, “Oh, by the way, uh, pay us a bunch of money.” Right. That, that’s, that’s, that’s really tough, uh, if, if you will. Uh, and so, uh, so, so this segment, uh, I actually, uh, saw an article in The Wall Street Journal that, that kind of highlighted some of the, some of the four bigger mistakes.

[00:26:49] Joel Garris: So we kind of wanna… Thought it was interesting enough that we wanted to share that and sort of walk through tho- those mistakes because for the most part, uh, a lot of those [00:27:00] mistakes were procedural in nature, and certainly not investment related but, but more, uh, procedure related- Yeah … than anything.

[00:27:09] Zach Keister: Yeah, absolutely. And, and the first one we want to chat about is the inherited IRA rollover. This is a, a huge one, especially after the rules changed in 2020, this has become a much bigger conversation.

[00:27:22] Joel Garris: Yeah, it really has been, and you gotta be careful with this one. Uh, so that kind of tees it up, if you will.

[00:27:28] Joel Garris: Um, and so we’re gonna get into these examples a little bit. And, and, and there’s… And we’re gonna talk about four, but I mean, there’s way more than that, but it’s only a 40-minute program, so we gotta, you know, focus a little bit. Uh, which we will do after, uh, the break here on Dollars and Sense with Joel Garris and Zach Keister of Nelson Financial Planning.

[00:27:54] Joel Garris: Retirement mistakes that you cannot undo. That is our topic, [00:28:00] uh, in the final segment of this week’s edition of Dollars and Sense. So thank you for joining us on this week’s program, where our goal has been, as it always has been, to help you make better decisions with your money. And Zach, this is a big topic because as we were talking about before the break, you know, if you have your choice between an investment mistake or a retirement account mistake, go with the investment mistake, ’cause those you can fix.

[00:28:29] Joel Garris: Retirement ones, mm, maybe not.

[00:28:32] Zach Keister: While not pleasant, it is at least, uh, fixable, and you do not have to tangle with the IRS themselves.

[00:28:38] Joel Garris: And so we teed up the first one, and this is this notion of inherited IRA rollovers, and obviously you hear all these stories about the massive wealth transfer from one generation to the next.

[00:28:49] Joel Garris: A lot of those dollars are going to be retirement related, and, uh, there are very specific rules that you need to follow with this one.

[00:28:57] Zach Keister: Yeah. And absolutely. Um, a lot of [00:29:00] folks might think, “Okay, well, I inherited this IRA from my aunt or, or maybe a parent,” and thinks, “Okay, well, it’s at this institution, but I don’t really interact with them and I wanna move it over to where I work.”

[00:29:12] Zach Keister: Um, and that’s a reasonable thought. Sure. A reasonable thought. Um, and like many ways you might just think, “Okay, well I’m just moving money, so I’ll just take it out of here and then pop it over to this side.” Unfortunately, it’s not that smooth. Uh, there’s certainly a process you wanna follow here.

[00:29:29] Joel Garris: Yeah, because the reality is on these rollovers, and again, we’re talking about non-spouse rollovers of a, of an inherited IRA, if you simply say, “Hey, send me the money and I’m just gonna stick it over here,” uh, you won’t be allowed to do that.

[00:29:45] Joel Garris: That, that is a, a prohibited transaction by the IRS and, uh, they will not allow that, and you’ll wind up having to pay taxes on all of that.

[00:29:54] Zach Keister: Prohibited and could be very, very costly. ‘Cause when you kick that money out, [00:30:00] it then hits your checking account. All of a sudden that becomes taxable money to you- Yeah

[00:30:05] Zach Keister: in that year.

[00:30:07] Joel Garris: Well, and the thing on these inherited, uh, uh, IRA accounts, obviously the rules have changed an awful lot. There was a few years where the rules were in flux as to what you were supposed to do with them. Uh, post-2020, if you’re, if the person passed away after 2020, uh, then there’s a 10-year rule in terms of how that money must come out.

[00:30:28] Joel Garris: Uh, but you certainly don’t wanna try and accelerate all 10 years in a single shot if you take the money and not ultimately, um- Just do that through the proper process. And, and so to talk a little bit about that, it… And this is where I guess it gets, where people do get frustrated, kind of throw up their hands on it.

[00:30:47] Joel Garris: Because in essence, you really kind of have to do that process first with the, the, the original custodian.

[00:30:55] Zach Keister: Yeah, you gotta, you gotta start there. Yeah. You gotta, you gotta start the conversation with, with them. [00:31:00] And hopefully you’ll get some good guidance- Yeah … as, as well and say, “Well, here’s, here’s how the process works.

[00:31:04] Zach Keister: Um, you don’t wanna just take all this money out in, in one go.”

[00:31:08] Joel Garris: Yeah. A- a- and because the reality is the account is there. You, you can’t really do anything until you go through that process. And the problem is then it becomes a, such a process because now there’s an account that’s gonna be set up in your name, which means that if you’re using a financial institution of any kind, they’re, they’re gonna have a slew of paperwork.

[00:31:25] Joel Garris: Because you’re going to be a client, whether you want to or not, you’re going to be a client of that financial institution for at least a period of time. And that means you’ve got new client paperwork, trusted contact, filling out forms, all of that stuff that ultimately, uh, can cause people to say, “Well, just send me a check and I’m done.”

[00:31:48] Joel Garris: Uh, but that’s where the trouble comes into

[00:31:50] Zach Keister: play. And really rightfully so, right? Yeah. Because you are going to be a client, even if it might be for a day. You are going to technically be a client of that institution. So [00:32:00] they have, uh, regulations and things that they’ve gotta follow, so just kind of following the process, which tends, like you mentioned, to end, end people up in just saying, “Yep, I’m throwing my hands up.

[00:32:10] Zach Keister: I’m done. Just send me a check. I’m walking away from this whole thing.”

[00:32:13] Joel Garris: Process is the same whether you’re a client of a financial institution for a day- Or you’re a client of that financial institution for 30 years. It is still a paperwork process, and I think that’s where the frustration comes in. Uh, similarly on this next one, th- this, this notion of taking money out from your own IRA and putting it into another of your IRAs.

[00:32:35] Joel Garris: So not inherited, these are just straight up your accounts. Uh, here the rule is kind of unique, if you will- It- … in terms of how to deal with it …

[00:32:42] Zach Keister: it, it certainly, certainly is. Again, the same thought, most people think, “Okay, I’m moving money from here to there. I will just, uh, cash it out and then have it go to my checking account and go into the new account.”

[00:32:55] Zach Keister: Uh, no, there’s still, again, a, a full process, and there’s limits [00:33:00] on, on this, uh, to doing the once per year rollover. Um, and we’re talking about here cashing it out, having it go into your bank account, and then moving it. Not, not trustee to trustee transfer. That’s a completely different thing.

[00:33:13] Joel Garris: Well, and, and the key piece there is it’s, it’s once per year, but they define year as a 12-month period, not calendar year.

[00:33:25] Joel Garris: So you really gotta be careful on this one. If you’re taking money out of an IRA to just bring it over to another IRA, be very careful. There, there, there is a process, and this is where the approach that you’re using and the terms that you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re applying really make a difference.

[00:33:40] Zach Keister: Yeah.

[00:33:41] Zach Keister: Absolutely, and that’s a very good distinction, Joel, that they count it as 12 calendar months- Right … not necessarily, uh, an actual calendar. So gotta pay attention.

[00:33:51] Joel Garris: You get one of those. You get one of those- What? … per that 12 calendar month window. That, that’s it. And so this is where the, you know, the [00:34:00] terminology sounds a lot alike, but it’s very, very different.

[00:34:02] Joel Garris: So there’s a notion, but there’s a difference between an indirect rollover, where you’re taking that money- A direct rollover where it’s going custodian to custodian, that’s the best way to do it right there i- if you’re gonna do it. Uh, similarly like the, a direct rollover, you also would have like a trustee transfer.

[00:34:21] Joel Garris: Again, any time it’s financial institution to financial institution, that’s always gonna be the cleanest way. You’re never gonna get into trouble with that. Once you get your hands on that money, even if it’s for a day, that’s where the trouble can come into play.

[00:34:34] Zach Keister: That’s where trou- trouble can come in, and that’s where the clock starts- Yeah

[00:34:38] Zach Keister: as, as well. So you gotta be careful. You gotta watch it. And again, this is another spot where people could go, “Okay, I’m gonna throw my hands up. I’m tired of this. Just write me a check and, and away it go, I go.” Because this is, again, another paperwork process. Yeah. This is the full shootin’ match again, if, if you will, which will, again, require all the new client paperwork and all that sort of [00:35:00] stuff all over again.

[00:35:00] Joel Garris: Very intensive amount of, of paperwork. This next one also is, I think, one of the more unique- Mm … retirement income strategies that applies to folks that are not quite full retirement age and, and for the purposes of a retirement account, that’s 59 and a half. And this one is this notion of 72distributions.

[00:35:20] Joel Garris: Tell us what those are, Zach, and what the, what the pitfalls are.

[00:35:23] Zach Keister: Yeah. This, this is huge as well. I know, uh, we certainly interact with a lot of folks that have these, and we spend a lot of time sitting with them and kind of explaining how this all works because this could be a huge, huge pitfall. So an example here is let’s say you retire, um, under the age of 59 and a half, and well, you’re retired, so you kind of need income.

[00:35:45] Zach Keister: So there’s the 72 thing, 72, uh, distribution plan, um, also known as equal periodic payments of which, okay, I’m gonna take out $3,000 a month, and I’m gonna do this until I hit 59 and a half or for five years. [00:36:00] But the big red flag here is I cannot change this until such time that I reach 59 and a half or the five years.

[00:36:07] Joel Garris: Yeah, and that’s key because if you do, then the IRS can instill a retroactive penalty for all of those dollars that you did and thereby apply a 10% extra charge, if you will, on all of those previous distributions. And, and, and there’s also other ways. If we think about some of the exceptions that exist about if I’m over 55 or if I’m over 50 and I take from a qualified plan, you can remove the potential application of that early withdrawal penalty.

[00:36:36] Joel Garris: So the key point here is if you are younger and looking for an option to retire, make sure you explore all the options. Don’t just immediately say, “I’m gonna roll it over to an IRA.”

[00:36:46] Zach Keister: Absolutely, ’cause you could just tie yourself up until you reach 59 and a half if, if you do so. And the big word here is retroactive.

[00:36:55] Zach Keister: Yeah. That, I mean, that’s a, that’s a sh- shorter word, but that could be a very [00:37:00] expensive word.

[00:37:01] Joel Garris: Last one real quick, uh, that we wanted to mention is if you take stock- Then you’ve gotta put that same stock back into the next retirement account. You can’t take a s- take stock out of a retirement account and use cash to move that ama- equivalent amount of dollars into the new retirement account.

[00:37:20] Joel Garris: That will not work.

[00:37:21] Zach Keister: Will not work.

[00:37:22] Joel Garris: So some important things to remember on retirement accounts and some of the pitfalls that can happen, uh, on just everyday kinds of processes that we see all too often at the office. So the goal is to make sure that you’ve got the proper plan in place. That’s where we at Nelson Financial Planning come in.

[00:37:42] Joel Garris: If you think we might be able to help you in your retirement, visit our website at Nelson Financial Planning to request an absolutely free conversation about your financial goals. With that, we’re gonna wrap it on up and get on out of here. This has been Joel Garris, Zach Keister of Nelson Financial [00:38:00] Planning.